What’s it like being an intuitive? Do we all possess these abilities? “It’s a matter of tuning in a paying attention,” guest Cyndi Dale says. Dale, the author of more than 20 books on energy work, empathy, and clairvoyance, joins the podcast to talk about discovering her gifts, countering skeptics, the four ways people access their abilities, the difference between physical energy and subtle energy, and scope of practice.
This podcast sponsored by:
Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function.
CBD Clinic products are the first nonprescription, over-the-counter topical medications that combine authorized active pharmaceutical ingredients and CBD enriching emollients such as hemp extract. Visit cbdclinic.co to get a sample and start feeling the difference for yourself today. Join our private Facebook group and connect with other massage therapists and HCPs using CBD Clinic products already.
At Structural Elements, we view ourselves as Body Engineers. We evaluate the human body according to its structural integrity and establish proper balance between compression and tension elements. Through identifying patterns in the body, we are able to locate areas of compensation to treat the cause of the imbalance, not the site of pain. Our patients achieve lasting results as we reduce structural imbalances, improve connective tissue health, and reeducate movement patterns. Now, we have taken our education, operations, and communications infrastructure from our franchise company and made it available to the industry through (se) Connect.
(se) Connect is the only interdisciplinary knowledge sharing platform that exists in the wellness industry. Participants gain access to treatment tools, business tools, and the ability to connect with other professionals in a variety of modalities. Through our community, massage therapists, physical therapists, chiropractors, athletic trainers, acupuncturists, and others all learn to look at the body through the same lens, which allows for rich discussions on patient care and treatment options. Our training staff brings decades of experience in massage, manual therapy, acupuncture, chiropractic, and business, and we look forward to sharing that with you.
0:00:00.2 Speaker 1: With SE Connect, you can learn a 15-minute comprehensive manual therapy treatment that will set you apart from other massage therapists. SE Connect is the only multi-disciplinary platform with practice tools, business tools and a community of practitioners speaking the same language. Check it out at network.structuralelements.com.
0:00:26.5 S1: As a massage therapist, you know that truly the world's most beautiful machine is in your hands, you help relieve the pain and pressures that holds your clients back from fully enjoying life. The CBD clinic massage collection uses ingredients from nature to deliver strong, effective temporary pain relief with aromatic botanicals and natural emollients like CBD. Our tiered pain products let you personalise your massage to meet each client's needs. Be your client's hero by giving them the massage treatment of their dreams with CBD Clinic. Learn more at cbdclinic.co.
0:01:18.4 Darren Buford: Welcome to The ABMP Podcast. My name is Darren Buford, I'm Editor-in-Chief of Massage & Bodywork Magazine, and Senior Director of Communications for ABMP.
0:01:26.3 Kristin Coverly: And I'm Kristin Coverly, licensed massage therapist and ABMP's Director of Professional Education.
0:01:31.4 DB: Our guest today is Cyndi Dale. Cyndi is an international renowned author, speaker, intuitive healer and business consultant. Her ground-breaking books on chakras and intuition include The Subtle Body: An Encyclopedia of Your Energetic Anatomy; Energy Healing for Trauma, Stress & Chronic Illness; Energy Wellness for Your Pets; Llewellyn's Complete Book of Chakras; and Awaken Clairvoyant Energy. Cyndi has been a natural intuitive since she was young, and offers these gifts to clients and groups seeking to make real and positive change. Her passion includes helping people open their essential energy, the powers and perspectives unique to them. She continues to hone her ability to help people discover their essential selves so they can make healthy and positive changes in their lives.
0:02:19.8 DB: Hello, Cyndi, and hello, Kristin.
0:02:21.8 Cyndi Dale: Hey, I'm so happy to be here.
0:02:24.4 KC: We are more than thrilled to have you here. So thank you so much for being with us today. And we're excited to talk to you about so many things, but let's start by getting to know a little bit more about you and your story. So you've referred to yourself as so many of the things that you do, but one of the things is an everyday clairvoyant. So what does that mean, and how did that come to be?
0:02:46.2 CD: Well, I was one of those kids who was born naturally weird. [laughter] That'd be one way to say it. I think many of us are, we pop out of the womb and we look around and we see more than what we can spot with our physical eyes. So, honestly, I was able to sense the presence of ghosts, to talk to them, to see energy colors around people and coming out of their bodies, and I've since figured out that those are auric fields and chakras, and that there's an entire world that for most of us is invisible and inaudible, but it is 99% of the world. So when I talk about being an everyday clairvoyant that doesn't mean that when I go to Target I want to know what people ate for breakfast.
0:03:35.9 CD: I don't. I ain't tuning in.
0:03:41.5 CD: I wanna just shop until I drop and enjoy the process and not predict what the bill will be when I'm done. [laughter] But I do wanna emphasise that we do all have various intuitive gifts, and they're really... They're not just to help us, if we do something like I do professionally, which is to be an intuitive and an energy healer, but they're there within us to help with our real lives.
0:04:08.7 DB: Cyndi, tell me a little bit, how did you know? You said you were young. Can you tell me what that was like a little bit? Was there a first experience or multiple experiences that you can recollect?
0:04:19.0 CD: Oh, I love that question. And my very first memory was actually in the womb, so I remember being in the womb just sort of kind of drifting around, not terribly intelligently. [laughter] But I could see, I could see, I don't know if it was with my physical eyes, I think my eye lids were shut, so it was probably what they called the third eye, that clairvoyance center, and I knew my parents were arguing, which they did quite a bit during my entire growing up too. I could see, coming in through the womb, these sound waves. They were like vortexes of color and sound, and I felt them landing in the body.
0:05:00.9 CD: And what's really interesting is everywhere those sound waves landed, they were palpable. At some point in my childhood, I developed a problem: Left ear infections, blew up my left knee, had the garage door fall on my left ankle, they were mostly on my left side of the body, which in my world relates to issues with your mother. Don't we all have mother issues? And I am a mother, so I could say that with a lot of kindness. But even when I was older than that, like I came out, I remember one experience in particular. My dad worked for NASA and we lived in Huntsville, Alabama. And my bed kind of faced the hallway, and it was at the end of the kitchen.
0:05:50.7 CD: So way on the other side is the kitchen. We lived near a railroad track and we'd see what we called at that time "hobos" constantly jumping on and off of the cars. Well, one night I woke up and I saw shadows kind of at the doorway at the end of the hallway, and I heard sounds, I had actually heard a screen door opening, the door opening, and these hobos come in the house, the kitchen in particular, and they were talking like, "What do we make? And where are we gonna go next?" And I heard them make breakfast. I heard bacon sizzling, I could tell that the eggs were being scrambled and fried, and when they left, my first thought was, "Oh, my stars, my mother's gonna be so mad because they didn't do the dishes." [laughter] There was no sound of dishwasher kind of running or of the faucet water.
0:06:49.0 CD: So I ran into my parent's room, I was probably about four at the time, woke them up and told them what had happened, and my mom just rolled over and said, "Just stop making things up." [chuckle] And my dad was a little more patient. Bleary, he grabbed me by the hand, took me to the kitchen, and he then looked around, there was no frying pan, there was no sign that they'd been there and said, "These are dreams, Cindy." So I wasn't terribly supported in being so imaginative, but I knew it was real because I saw this stuff, I heard this stuff. So it's sort of crazy-making. And I think we all have those sorts of senses of crazy-making when we know something's really real and true, even if we just feel it or sense it, but the world outside says, "Oh, come on. How would you know or see something like that."
0:07:40.7 KC: So how did you start to transition and gain confidence in those skills and abilities over time?
0:07:48.2 CD: I didn't for a long time, because I first shut them down. [laughter] When I was about 13, I just said, "This sucks, I wanna be out of here." Had a near-death experience, never saw a great white light, [laughter] never had the angels floating around me, heard a voice say, "I'm sorry, you haven't done anything." Sent me back and I was so mad, I shut down my abilities. I just shut them down. And then I developed, oh whatever, anorexia, bulimia, co-dependent, the long list of the issues that bring us into therapy. Went to therapy, had a therapist who said, "You know, you probably aren't just co-dependent, this, that, and the other thing. You're probably also psychic." So here's how I actually gained confidence. I begin traveling. I was so lucky to travel to different places around the world and learn what is psychism, what is healing, what is energy, what are chakras from different kind of in pseudo experts, shamans and healers in other countries, and my gifts opened up again and even more, and then that voice came back and just said, "Well, now you have to run a practice, and now you have to write a book."
0:09:09.2 CD: I think confidence in intuition and energy and even in deep wisdom comes by using it. I wouldn't say I'm always confident even now. I would say I'm always being stretched to learn something new and develop a new technique and to keep going. And so I always go to that sort of cusp of nervousness. [chuckle] Right? And then kind of flounder and then get my sea legs and get confident again in a new way, doing something additional.
0:09:40.8 KC: And I think that's a great lesson for us all to hear from someone like you who is such an expert in what you do and you've been doing it successfully for so long, that you still go to that cusp of nervousness. And that's a good lesson for us all that, yes, that is just part of the process for us to all do on an ongoing basis. Right?
0:09:58.6 CD: Right, and it means we're stretched. I know for body workers you can't just kind of stay with the first techniques you learned or memorise kind of all the muscles without refreshing yourself. [laughter] What they are, and adding new scientific discoveries into your bed of data and gain new techniques. I think it's the same with every profession. If you stop growing just because you're scared of change you're gonna stop growing. You just will. So you kinda gotta make peace with fear.
0:10:32.5 DB: Let's take a short break to hear a word from our sponsors. Anatomy Trains is happy to announce our return to the dissection lab in person, January 10 to the 14th, 2022 at the Laboratory of Anatomical Enlightenment in Boulder, Colorado. We are thrilled to be back in the lab with Anatomy Trains' author Tom Meyers, and master dissector Todd Garcia. Join students from around the world and from all types of manual, movement, and fitness professions to explore the real human form, not the images you get from books. This is an exclusive invitation. Email info@Anatomytrains.com if you'd like to join us in the lab. Now, let's get back to the podcast.
0:11:14.3 DB: Cindy, can I ask you something I am super interested in here? What does it feel like? What does it feel like to know, to see or to know, or is it what I would relate to something like a gut feeling? That's the only words I can think of that I can relate to. Can you tell me a little bit about what that feels like? To know, to see.
0:11:36.9 CD: I love that question, and I also really like that it's really implying that this kind of knowing is body-based, because it is. And it's like we've got inside eyes and inside ears. There's different styles, there's different ways of being intuitive. One of the ways of being intuitive is like you're saying, is to know and is to get a sense in your gut. I negotiate my everyday life with that. If I just get this "Ugh!" About somebody, I'm ain't gonna get to know them. [chuckle] If I wanna eat that chocolate cake and my stomach turns inside out, I better not eat it. If I get a happy feeling, it's totally okay, it's gonna digest just fine. We can also get messages in a more sensory way, sort of like your knee may just act up, and that might be saying, "You know, if you walk farther, you're going to get a knee problem." Or that pain in the knee might indicate that the person you're near has a problem in their knee or the person you're doing bodywork on has some kind of a knee issue. You can also get feelings or emotions, like if I'm suddenly happy thinking about doing something, I'm like, "I'm so going for it." Or if I'm with a friend and I start to just shake and feel angry and I have no reason to, I know that that's really their issue, not mine. And then, when you hear voices, people always kinda get whacked out about that. [laughter] There's a difference between being psychic and psychotic.
0:13:17.4 CD: Alright. And if the voice is in your own kind of sound and diction inside, it's your inner wisdom. But a lot of us get guidance from outside of ourselves. I believe that there's guides, and those voices don't sound like my own, but if they do sound sane [chuckle] and positive and helpful and they're not dictatorial and they're advising, I pay attention. And then there's, "How do you know if you're imagining a picture?" You're just making up that you're gonna win the lottery, versus you're actually getting the numbers in your head and you're reading them. [laughter] Inner vision is just that. You can't really control what you see, it just comes to you unbidden. Maybe it's streams of pictures or colors, but you can also get visual signs outside of you.
0:14:13.6 CD: Like my son, who's a baseball pitcher, any time he has a major question he sees license plates that have words on them or numbers that give him signs. In fact, he was asking me about two weeks ago what he should do in regard to his school. I saw not just a license plate in front of me while he was talking, actually his name was on the back of the truck, "Gabriel" right in front of me, his whole name. It was stretched out there, and given that I'm looking at his name I read the license plate and it actually ended up messaging words that he needed to hear.
0:14:57.6 KC: Wow.
0:15:00.8 CD: [chuckle] That's pretty good, isn't it?
0:15:02.6 KC: Yeah. [laughter] That's amazing.
0:15:04.7 DB: Cyndi, can you tell us a little bit about your practice? How do you define the work you do? A lot of massage therapists practitioners are familiar with the term "energy worker" or "energy practitioner." Is that how you would define yourself, or empath or intuit? Can you tell us a little bit about that?
0:15:21.1 CD: There's two main words or umbrellas for what I do. One definitely is "energy work," and that's very broad. We're all energy workers actually, [chuckle] and these days that term is applied a lot to health and helping people with holistic well-being. Energy is just information that moves. That's it. It's just data that vibrates. Everything is made out of energy. Einstein said everything is energy, and the difference between mass, kind of what we can touch or smell and we think is real and what we can't see or always prove is just that dense energy is what we call matter. That's only 1%, less than 1% of all energy.
0:16:11.0 CD: So, I certainly work with people's physical issues, physical concerns, do a little bit of hands-on healing sometimes if I'm in-person, but most of what I'm doing is accessing my intuition, my way of getting data with pictures, with senses, with guides and what they have to say, and helping a client do that, so I can figure out what's causing the issue and what can we move around, what energies can we move around so we get a higher level of well-being. So I'm using my intuition to move energy. That's really what I'm doing.
0:16:46.6 DB: Cyndi, I know this is like a favorite question of yours. How do you counter skeptics of your work?
0:16:54.6 CD: [laughter] Well, when they're clients the first thing I tell them is, "Hurray for you to be skeptical." [laughter] I have met a lot of people in my personal life and professional who probably haven't been skeptical enough, and they just believe anything anyone says to them, and that's just not logical. You wanna be able to have a sense of healthy rationality in any part of our life, okay? So I don't attack somebody's question marks, I just say, "Let's look at what's making you skeptical and see if maybe you can lower that boundary in order to allow changes to be made."
0:17:38.1 CD: And I use science from a really practical point of view, we know what energy is, we can prove it, we know that quantum physics is real, we understand that there's these quantum particles in the past, the present, the future, we have studies that show that psychism is actually really real, there are studies that prove that energy comes off of a healer's hand. So I love the science of this. Modern medicine has got to catch up, even regular physicians should be studying the various scientific research on light and sound, because healing is occurring through light and sound, not just diagnostics, but actual healing. Green light improves the balancing of our hormones. The blue light that comes off of computers, [laughter] decrease the melatonin in your body, which makes it hard for you to sleep at night. So you need to counteract that, say, by wearing amber glasses. This stuff is not just sci-fi. The proof is actually here. So I tell people, "Do your studies, do your research, allow this to happen and listen to the science."
0:18:56.3 KC: Do you have a favorite converted skeptic story?
0:19:00.7 CD: [laughter] I have a woman. This is one of my favorite stories. She saw me because her partner insisted. She didn't wanna see me. A lot of people are usually... Often they're the husbands, okay? [laughter] Just to be honest. But her partner was a woman, and her partner was kind of very into all of this, what people often call "Woo-woo." And her partner had lung cancer, so she insisted that this woman come to see me. And this was back when I did work out of my home, down in my basement, which is kind of scary sometimes feeling for people. And she sat across from me and she was like, "This is just so bizarre. I'm getting chemo. I don't really care what you have to say. I'm just doing this because I have to."
0:19:51.0 CD: And we did a little bit of this and we did a little bit of that. I talked about a few of her emotional issues from childhood and asked for energies to be delivered into her body. She didn't feel anything. And two days later, she contacted me and she said, "What did you do to me?" So I said, "Well, what's happened?" And she goes, "I was in incredible pain for the entire night after I saw you, and then my clothes didn't fit." I said, "Well, what do you mean?" She said, "I grew two inches. My spine elongated two inches."
0:20:28.9 CD: Now, I still don't know what that had to do with cancer. She came to see me another time. Maybe we assisted her body in freeing herself of cancer, because she was given a clean bill health a few months later. But that could have been the chemo. Sometimes energy work just helps physical work better. It's not just magic and mystery. But the last of two times that she saw me, and then I think she was just too freaked out to come back, she contacts me again and she said, "Okay, here's the major change. I've been gripped with inexplicable bouts of joy." She was actually mad that she would be happy sometimes. [laughter] Don't you love that? Well, in traditional Chinese medicine the lungs are actually about grief, which also means that if you release your grief you can be happier. So I just sort of kept that to myself. But I thought, "Well, something's working here."
0:21:33.1 KC: Cyndi, do we all possess these kind of energetic capabilities and intuition, and how would we start to tap into that? What's a first baby step for someone who doesn't feel like they can tap into that at all?
0:21:49.7 CD: Well, you wouldn't be alive without your intuition. [chuckle] Let's just think of it. It's the majority of our energy. And it's a communication interaction with ourselves and the outside world. That's what intuition is, it's a way of knowing. And when we're being intuitive we're sharing invisible energy, but we're also bringing it in. How many of us don't read people, get a sense of what they're going through and respond empathically? Or know when to shut down and get out of a situation? Or wake up in the morning with just this kind of a feeling like there's something specific we're supposed to do that day?
0:22:35.0 CD: I mean, we all get dreams, some of them give us guidance, work through issues, and sometimes the visions in them come true. I think most of us have felt the presence of a deceased loved one. That's intuition! We already have it and we are actually always using it. It's just a matter of tuning in and paying more attention. So I typically tell people, "Get a sense of what might be your strongest form of intuition right now." Is it physical kinesthetic empathy? Which is sensing in your body or through your feelings, or just getting a gut sense. Are you more of a spiritual intuitive, so you just know things? Kind of the way you think God knows everything. [chuckle]
0:23:20.3 CD: Or those angels know things. You just have awarenesses or consciousness and know what's right or wrong for somebody. Maybe you're more verbal, like you read a paragraph in a book and it holds a message, or words come out of your mouth and they deliver wisdom to people or you hear voices or songs, or you work things through by singing and/or maybe you're more visual, you get images in your head, whether you're day-dreaming or night dreaming, and/or you know what to pay attention to by what your eye glances at and notices.
0:23:57.5 CD: So get a sense of which of those four main abilities you may want to develop and then focus on it. Pay attention, give yourself assignments, believe, go with what you're sensing or feeling or being aware of or seeing, or what the words are telling you to do, because they're not gonna steer you wrong. You may not know why [chuckle] you're calling your friend because you had a dream. You may not know what the outcome is gonna be. I believe intuition is given on an as-need-to know basis. We're not told what's gonna come of it, but it's always the right path, so follow it. And then often in hindsight you can look back and go, "Oh, that's why I dreamed about my friend. Yeah, they were sick and I was able to take care of them or tell them what to do."
0:24:51.3 DB: What kind of information would you give practitioners out there who are really interested. How do they hone their energy work into their practice?
0:25:01.0 CD: So there's lots of classes out there, there's tons of websites, there's lots of downloads. You can avail yourself of really free resources. I have a book called "Subtle Energy Techniques" you can get on Amazon, and Amazon always deep discounts, so it's only like 10 bucks right now. [chuckle] It'll give you really easy practices, you don't have to go take classes worth hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars to start kind of figuring out your gifts. And in that particular book I teach two fundamental techniques. I don't think you have to have 50 different techniques. I teach people how to come from their own essence or spirit and interface with the client in that way, and call on higher help.
0:25:50.0 CD: And I also talk about what I believe to be real, that there's always healing powers available to us, streams of energy, streams of grace. There's science terms for it, as well as spiritual. But all you really have to do is call to the client the healing energies that are needed. They will be delivered straight to the client. They don't need to come through you, you don't need to do the energy work. So I think it's important to make that point, you don't have to always be the active participant and do the work or lose your energy. And then just start practicing with your intuition. Ask a client, "Would it be okay if I gave you any feedback of what I hear or see or sense intuitively, and just run it by you?" And that way you're getting permission, which is really important, and you're also kind of empowering the client to say yes or no to what you get to say what fits or not, and encouraging them to use their own intuition too.
0:26:54.7 DB: Well, this has been a delight. I wanna thank our guest today, Cyndi Dale for joining us. Find out more information about Cyndi on cyndidale.com. That's C-Y-N-D-I-D-A-L-E.com. Listeners, like what you're hearing on the ABMP Podcast? Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or wherever you listen. You'll help us reach more people in the massage and body work community. Thank you so much, Cyndi, and thank you, Kristen.
0:27:20.7 CD: Been my pleasure, thank you both.
0:27:23.3 KC: Cyndi, thank you so much, that was truly a joy and delight. Thanks for being with us.
0:27:30.5 S1: Members are loving ABMP Five Minute Muscles and the ABMP Pocket Pathology, two quick reference web apps included with ABMP membership. ABMP Five Minute Muscles delivers muscle-specific palpation and technique videos plus origins, insertions, and actions for the 83 muscles most commonly addressed by body workers. ABMP Pocket Pathology, created in conjunction with Ruth Warner, puts key information for nearly 200 common pathologies at your fingertips and provides the knowledge you need to help you make informed treatment decisions. Start learning today. ABMP members, log in at abmp.com and look for the links in the featured benefits section of your Member home page. Not a member? Learn about these exciting member benefits at abmp.com/more.